I often hear from Texans that...

[Readyfor8]

... Texas has the best highschool football talent in the country. And I often then get a blinding headache.

To those Texas fans, let me ask a question. Why doesn't Texas, A&M, Tech, etc. etc. have a combined monopoly on college football? Do Texan colleges do less with greater talent and if so what does that say about Texan colleges?

Our Heisman winners have been 3 to 1 Oklahomans, yes Oklahoma uses alot of talent from Texas, alot of our great players have been from the state of Texas, but alot of our talent also comes from Oklahoma. Historically speaking we have nearly double the ammount of athletes from the state of Oklahoma, 1144 from OK, 644 from Texas. Of our 144 All Americans how many are Texans? I would be willing wager that atleast half are Oklahomans.

So where is all the arrogance coming from, for Texas Highschool Talent? Is it fertile ground? Absolutly, so is Ohio, Michigan, Indiana, Florida, California and evidently Oklahoma.

And if it is your contention that Texas is the fertile ground for growing collegiate and professional football athletes, then you must atleast admit one thing.

They may be born Texans, but they come to Oklahoma to become champions.

[olevetonahill]

The Champion thingy got ya my spek lol

[mhackl]

Good point, I'll have to pose that question to my neighbor from Austin.

[bluedogok]

For the most part it is sheer population, look at those states listed and see how many high schools are playing football, you have a larger number of players than from states with smaller populations. If you look at percentages of overall player population that make to the elite level, then it is probably about the same as any other state.

[goingoneight]

I don't know that they have the best... but I know they have the most. Last I heard, a Texas-born kid was an American. Same for Oklahoma, Colorado, California and even Alaska. If Coach Stoops finds three 5* recruits IN AUSTIN, and they all decide to go to OU... then yeah, **** UT. Texas isn't another country, ya know... and most people with a lick of sense know that burnt-orange (or any orange for that matter) is ugly and most of what UT is publicly associated with is really goofy. That's a major turn off to young guys. Remember "burnt-orange makes me puke?"

[Jacie]

The basic argument is sound, not the state of Texas highschool players being better than Oklahoma's but on a regional basis the South turns out more than the North. I believe there is a sociological explanation for this. In the South highschool football is much more popular than in the North. Weather plays a big part in this as most people don't like to sit in the stands when the temperature is in the thirties or lower. The northern states with large populations produce a lot of basketball and hockey players. They have their share of football players but the indoor sports dominate over the outdoor ones. I found it curious when I moved to New York a decade ago to discover that the third most populated state had fewer D-1A football teams than Oklahoma. Compared to Oklahoma, few highschools field football teams. I don't think any NYC schools play it. Among rural schools it is a common practice for two, three or four schools to combine talent to field a team though it is under one school, the largest one's name. On the other hand, almost every highschool plays basketball and hockey. Once winter sets in people go out at night to water their backyards to build up the ice so the kids can play. So the difference in the number of highschool kids going on to college level football is really just a matter of what sport is emphasized, not the talent of the kids.

[XingTheRubicon]

If you go to the football hall of fame in Canton, it will blow you away how many inductees are from TX.

This is a 3 way competition as far as talent and sheer numbers are concerned between TX, FL, and CA. In that order. TX is very proud of this, and should be. No state contributes to out of state programs as much as TX does. I'm not for sure, but I believe the state of TX high schools sign more D-1 recruits than any other state. TX also leads the nation in number of mobile homes and false pride.

[Purple Tiger]

Check the rosters of the best Sooner teams and 75% of the starters come from out of state,primarily Texas. Look at your starting lineup this year.Has OU ever had a winning season where there were more Oklahoma kids in lineup than Texans? No Texans means losing seasons ala Kansas or 1-AA.

[Leroy Lizard]

California is the king of high school football.

[Readyfor8]

Check the rosters of the best Sooner teams and 75% of the starters come from out of state,primarily Texas. Look at your starting lineup this year.Has OU ever had a winning season where there were more Oklahoma kids in lineup than Texans? No Texans means losing seasons ala Kansas or 1-AA.

You are incorrect to the nth degree.

14 of our 22 All americans since 2000 have been Oklahomans, 1 Californian, and 1 Dakota, Harris, Clayton, Everage, Strait, Peterson, and Carter are our only Texans.

We have only 22 Texans on the 2000 National Championship team, 53 Oklahomans were on that roster. We fielded no Texan All-Americans that year (only 3 Calmus, Heupel, and Thatcher)

On the 1985 National Championship team we had 49 Oklahomans, we had only 29 Texans on the roster that year. We fielded 3 All-Americans that year, Bosworth and Murphy being Texans, and Casillas being an Oklahoman.

So to Answer your question, yes we have fielded a team or two that have won with fewer Texans than Oklahomans. All Stats above were provided by Soonerstats.com, and Soonersports.com.

[Purple Tiger]

You are incorrect to the nth degree.

14 of our 22 All americans since 2000 have been Oklahomans, 1 Californian, and 1 Dakota, Harris, Clayton, Everage, Strait, Peterson, and Carter are our only Texans.

We have only 22 Texans on the 2000 National Championship team, 53 Oklahomans were on that roster. We fielded no Texan All-Americans that year (only 3 Calmus, Heupel, and Thatcher)

On the 1985 National Championship team we had 49 Oklahomans, we had only 29 Texans on the roster that year. We fielded 3 All-Americans that year, Bosworth and Murphy being Texans, and Casillas being an Oklahoman.

So to Answer your question, yes we have fielded a team or two that have won with fewer Texans than Oklahomans. All Stats above were provided by Soonerstats.com, and Soonersports.com.
And your 22 starters were mostly Texans and out of state kids. Check your 2 deep rosters in '85 and every other championship yr. Check this year. I doubt those 49 Oklahoma kids contributed as much as the 29 Texans. I know they didn't! Check this yrs 2 deep roster. Check your blue chip commitments for '08. As usual,Texans are the bulk and the cream of your class.

[FirstandGoal]

If you go to the football hall of fame in Canton, it will blow you away how many inductees are from TX.

This is a 3 way competition as far as talent and sheer numbers are concerned between TX, FL, and CA. In that order. TX is very proud of this, and should be. No state contributes to out of state programs as much as TX does. I'm not for sure, but I believe the state of TX high schools sign more D-1 recruits than any other state. TX also leads the nation in number of mobile homes and false pride.
And these stats make a lot of sense when you look at the logic of Jacie's post. Texas, California and Florida all have huge population bases and are southern states with the weather that is conducive to playing football. There are also local traditions that come into play here. So much of Texas is made up of thousands of small towns where high school football is more of a religion than a casual sport. It literally gives those towns an identity and is a source of pride.

What would be very interesting would be to see a per capita breakdown by state.

[bluedogok]

Big Deal.....there are Texas players scattered all over the country because the Texas schools can only sign 25 players each year. Just because of the sheer size of the population down here means there are going to be kids who go elsewhere. This is true for every large state. All Big 10 schools sign kids from Ohio and Pennsylvania every year. Look at the rosters of the non-California Pac 10 schools and most of their rosters are filled with kids from California. Schools outside Florida sign Florida kids all the time.

Because a state has a large population that means they are going to provide a proportionate number of players to college in regards to their overall numbers.


2006 Estimated population numbers from US Census Bureau (http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/)
US Population - 299,398,484
Oklahoma - 3,579,212 - 1.19% of US Population
Texas - 23,507,783 - 7.85 %
California - 36,457,549 - 12.18%
Florida - 18,089,888 - 6.04%
Ohio - 11,478,006 - 3.83%

[silverwheels]

And your 22 starters were mostly Texans and out of state kids. Check your 2 deep rosters in '85 and every other championship yr. Check this year. I doubt those 49 Oklahoma kids contributed as much as the 29 Texans. I know they didn't! Check this yrs 2 deep roster. Check your blue chip commitments for '08. As usual,Texans are the bulk and the cream of your class.

I fail to see the relevance of where players played in high school before they went to OU.

[MextheBulldog]

And your 22 starters were mostly Texans and out of state kids. Check your 2 deep rosters in '85 and every other championship yr. Check this year. I doubt those 49 Oklahoma kids contributed as much as the 29 Texans. I know they didn't! Check this yrs 2 deep roster. Check your blue chip commitments for '08. As usual,Texans are the bulk and the cream of your class.

I bet your mommy tells you the tooth fairy will bring u a $ for every tooth u lose, too. I know she does!

[snp]

... Texas has the best highschool football talent in the country. And I often then get a blinding headache.

To those Texas fans, let me ask a question. Why doesn't Texas, A&M, Tech, etc. etc. have a combined monopoly on college football? Do Texan colleges do less with greater talent and if so what does that say about Texan colleges?

Our Heisman winners have been 3 to 1 Oklahomans, yes Oklahoma uses alot of talent from Texas, alot of our great players have been from the state of Texas, but alot of our talent also comes from Oklahoma. Historically speaking we have nearly double the ammount of athletes from the state of Oklahoma, 1144 from OK, 644 from Texas. Of our 144 All Americans how many are Texans? I would be willing wager that atleast half are Oklahomans.

So where is all the arrogance coming from, for Texas Highschool Talent? Is it fertile ground? Absolutly, so is Ohio, Michigan, Indiana, Florida, California and evidently Oklahoma.


What your argument fails to address is the amount of Texans that become AA at schools all around the country, not just Oklahoma and Texas schools.

Texas HS are also the first to start playing 7 on 7 spring/summer ball. Many coaches have been raving how much their QBs and skill players have benefited. Arguing about Texas HS football and it's shortcoming is petty and a huge reach. There's 10 D1 schools that are filled with ~90% Texans.

[TXBOOMER]

CA, TX, FL have more talent than OK. Simple math the more kids you have, the more athletes you have. It is all about population. F texass! Boomer Sooner!

[Readyfor8]

And your 22 starters were mostly Texans and out of state kids. Check your 2 deep rosters in '85 and every other championship yr. Check this year. I doubt those 49 Oklahoma kids contributed as much as the 29 Texans. I know they didn't! Check this yrs 2 deep roster. Check your blue chip commitments for '08. As usual,Texans are the bulk and the cream of your class.

Once again you are wrong, I would argue that the cream of the crop is our All Americans, our All Americans by Majority are Oklahomans not Texans.

[Purple Tiger]

I fail to see the relevance of where players played in high school before they went to OU.
Wasn't the original post re the number and quality of Texas high school players? OU football is not the same as Oklahoma football. No Texans=very poor OU teams.

[Purple Tiger]

Once again you are wrong, I would argue that the cream of the crop is our All Americans, our All Americans by Majority are Oklahomans not Texans.
I don't think even you believe that. Take the Texans away from OU and you have 0 championships. Once again,check your 2 deep roster for any given yr in OU football history after the arrival of Bud Wilkinson and you will find more Texans than home grown kids.

[Purple Tiger]

I bet your mommy tells you the tooth fairy will bring u a $ for every tooth u lose, too. I know she does!
Can't argue the facts can you?

[Readyfor8]

Wasn't the original post re the number and quality of Texas high school players? OU football is not the same as Oklahoma football. No Texans=very poor OU teams.

I guess you can't read. You want to argue that we win championships on the back of Texas talent? Provide the numbers, I don't see it when the majority of our Award winners are Oklahomans, and not texans. We have had some great great players come from Texas, but we stock our roster with Oklahoma talent year in and year out and thus we win championships with Oklahoman and Texan talent not just one states talent.

Provide the numbers for the two deep roster, this is hard work and you have provided zero data to back your hypothesis.

[silverwheels]

Wasn't the original post re the number and quality of Texas high school players? OU football is not the same as Oklahoma football. No Texans=very poor OU teams.

That's not what the original post was about. He was arguing that a lot of the success of OU has been due to Oklahomans, not Texans. Sure, we recruit Texas heavily, but that's because they are one of the more populous states in the Union and therefore have a larger number of athletes. We would be stupid not to.

You have yet to present any stats or facts so you might want to do that.

[GreaterState]

I'm still watching for original poster to back up his hypothesis with the numbers ... he seems "willing to wager" things, so long as the rest of us go find the stats to back up his point.

[GottaHavePride]

Can't argue the facts can you?

You're an idiot.

Look; for argument here: say that 1% of the total population of a state plays high school football. Now, of those players, let's assume that 2% of those are good enough to play at the Division I-A level.

Now for some math.

Oklahoma - population 3.5 million. That would mean 35,000 kids playing high school football, and 700 kids that are D-IA talent. (Obviously the percentages are high, but we're talking ratios.)

Texas - population 23.5 million. 235,000 kids playing high school football, and 4,700 of them D-IA talent.

So, even if you cut the percentages drastically, there's no way Texas universities can put all the D-IA talent in Texas on scholarship. And they can't even take all of them if you start looking at, say, the top 5% of the D-IA talent.

Now for the next part - top talent wants to play for all the marbles, so they head for the dominant schools across the country. And like it or not, OU is on anyone's list of the most dominant schools of any era (sure, we were down in the 90s; we're back now and OU is on a level that maybe four or five other schools can claim historically.) So, all those kids that can't go to UT look for the next closest major program - OU. We'd be idiots to turn down top talent if they want to play for us, no matter where they come from. Statistics and geography say we're always going to have a significant number of Texans on our roster. Expecting otherwise of us is Aggie logic.

Congratulations. You've been GHPwn3d.

[proud gonzo]

http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/6427/ghpwn3d2nz0.jpg

[Readyfor8]

I'm still watching for original poster to back up his hypothesis with the numbers ... he seems "willing to wager" things, so long as the rest of us go find the stats to back up his point.

I am the original poster, and in my second post I provided data to back up my hypothesis. I'm still waiting for you to learn how to read.

[bluedogok]

And why does the fact that there are Texas players on the team matter? Last I heard schools aren't restricted to only using in-state players. Texas has more players due to sheer numbers as GHP posted, not just because they play football in Texas.

Here is the OU roster breakdown for 105 players.
OK-31 (29.5%)
TX-46 (43.8%)
LA-5 (4.8%)
NV-3 (2.9%)
AZ-2 (1.9%)
CO-2
FL-2
GA-2
KS-2
MI-2
CA-1 (1.0%)
MO-1
NC-1
NJ-1
NE-1
OH-1
SC-1
VA-1

LSU has players from many other states. Of the 124 players on there roster a little more than half are from Louisiana.

LA - 71 (57.3%)
TX-17 (13.7%)
FL-6 (4.8%)
MS-6 (4.8%)
AL-4 (3.2%)
AR-3 (2.4%)
GA-3 (2.4%)
CA-2 (1.6%)
TN-2 (1.6%)
AZ-1 (0.8%)
CO-1
MD-1
MI-1
NC-1
NE-1
NV-1
OH-1
VA-1

According to the estimated 2006 census Louisiana has a population of 4,287,768 which is larger than the Oklahoma population.

[GreaterState]

I am the original poster, and in my second post I provided data to back up my hypothesis. I'm still waiting for you to learn how to read.

I read your posts. You didn't prove much of your point (was it "My brain hurts hearing about how great Texas HS football is"?) before challenging others to prove you wrong. You're the one who started the thread.

GHP made the good numbers points. If you're seriously asking why (if Texas HSers are so great) don't Texas schools own college football, it's because they can't have 400 players on roster. And recruiting is an inexact enough science that nobody is guaranteed to have the very "best" players, if such a thing could be measured objectively. If your recruiting base is Texas, you scholly up the best set you can, knowing that dozens of top recruits are going elsewhere.

If Texas HS football wasn't the way it was, if it were more like other states, then top-flight recruits would be thinking "Should I go to UT, A&M or Tech?" Instead they have an entire country waiting with scholarships and open arms. Same for top Florida and California kids. And it's a rare coup to get much good from those places from outside, like Nebbish getting that d-back from L.A., or Texas getting Brantley from Florida (before losing him to Gators again).

Aside from numbers and good weather, it's an evolving situation. Oklahoma teams from 30 years ago had fewer Texans, but now has roughly 45 or so, to 25 Oklahomans? And then there's a cultural difference to Texas HS football I think you are overlooking.

I appreciate your state pride, but even a cursory look at something like the Rivals 100 would show 13 Texans and one Oklahoman (I think), so to say Texas HS football isn't a phenomenon is to bury your head in the sand.

[sooner518]

I don't think even you believe that. Take the Texans away from OU and you have 0 championships. Once again,check your 2 deep roster for any given yr in OU football history after the arrival of Bud Wilkinson and you will find more Texans than home grown kids.
Take away the Oklahomans from our roster and....holy ****! we have 0 championships too!! Your "points" are so irrelevant, it's not even funny

[Readyfor8]

I read your posts. You didn't prove much of your point (was it "My brain hurts hearing about how great Texas HS football is"?) before challenging others to prove you wrong. You're the one who started the thread.

GHP made the good numbers points. If you're seriously asking why (if Texas HSers are so great) don't Texas schools own college football, it's because they can't have 400 players on roster. And recruiting is an inexact enough science that nobody is guaranteed to have the very "best" players, if such a thing could be measured objectively. If your recruiting base is Texas, you scholly up the best set you can, knowing that dozens of top recruits are going elsewhere.

If Texas HS football wasn't the way it was, if it were more like other states, then top-flight recruits would be thinking "Should I go to UT, A&M or Tech?" Instead they have an entire country waiting with scholarships and open arms. Same for top Florida and California kids. And it's a rare coup to get much good from those places from outside, like Nebbish getting that d-back from L.A., or Texas getting Brantley from Florida (before losing him to Gators again).

Aside from numbers and good weather, it's an evolving situation. Oklahoma teams from 30 years ago had fewer Texans, but now has roughly 45 or so, to 25 Oklahomans? And then there's a cultural difference to Texas HS football I think you are overlooking.

I appreciate your state pride, but even a cursory look at something like the Rivals 100 would show 13 Texans and one Oklahoman (I think), so to say Texas HS football isn't a phenomenon is to bury your head in the sand.

My question isn't, "Why don't texas schools own college football?" It's why would any person think that recruiting only Texas players should be enough to remain competitive?

If you believe that Texas players are what makes Oklahoma great like many other people and atleast one person on the board does, then you have a pretty narrow view of Oklahoma Football. And after I have looked at the majority of our players that have won awards like All American, I have come to a single conclusion.

Oklahoma coaches great players to achieve great things. Too many fans from south of the Red River, want to say Oklahoma wins because of Texas High School Football, and thats at the very least an incorrect statement.

[47straight]

I'm still watching for original poster to back up his hypothesis with the numbers ... he seems "willing to wager" things, so long as the rest of us go find the stats to back up his point.


Why don't you get back to taking credit for all the success of former texas high school players regardless of where they go, just like ole Mackie?

[sooneron]

I don't think any NYC schools play it.
Wrong- there are 48 varsity squads. That's just the public schools

[tulsaoilerfan]

I don't think even you believe that. Take the Texans away from OU and you have 0 championships. Once again,check your 2 deep roster for any given yr in OU football history after the arrival of Bud Wilkinson and you will find more Texans than home grown kids.
That's probably true, but Texas kids have historically wanted to go to OU because they were one of, if not the, first schools in this part of the country to recruit African Americans; I'm not even sure when UT had their first African American, but i'm thinking it was at least more than a decade after OU integrated their program.

[tulsaoilerfan]

Once again you are wrong, I would argue that the cream of the crop is our All Americans, our All Americans by Majority are Oklahomans not Texans.
don't muddle up the conversation with facts!!!:D

[Leroy Lizard]

Remember the Boise St. team that beat us last year? Only 13 on the entire team this year is from Idaho. 45 are from California. 45!

Yet you don't hear Californians claiming victory for the bowl game, or sniveling when their California-based school loses to an out-of-state team with a lot of Californians playing on it.

Remember when Cal got beat by Arizona last year? Well, there are nearly twice as many Californians on Arizona's team than Arizonans. I don't recall any Cal fans complaining about being beat with California talent.

For some reason, only Texans seem to obsess on this issue. And I have never understood why.

[Leroy Lizard]

By the way, if Arizona ever wins the national title, I doubt they are going to give a rat's butt that they have a large number of Californians on their team.

[Crucifax Autumn]

As far as I can tell, Texas has way more great high school players. And as history shows, OU has had WAY more great college players, regardless of where they played in high school.

Seems to me that in the end more great players want to play for OU and the players we do have from in-state are so proud to be Sooners that they equal or surpass the Texas players in collegiate success.

[Frozen Sooner]

Take away Oklahomans and people who have coached at Oklahoma and Texas has 0 national championships.

Dig THOSE facts.

[Crucifax Autumn]

LMAO!

[Frozen Sooner]

Oh, and just for the record, here's the starting 22 for the 2000 national championship team.

QB-Josh Heupel. South Dakota
RB-Quentin Griffin. Texas
WR-Antwone Savage, Georgia
WR-Andre Woolfolk. Colorado
TE-Trent Smith. Oklahoma
FB-Seth Littrell. Oklahoma
OL-Al Baysinger. Texas
OL-Bubba Burcham. Oklahoma
OL-Brad Davis. Louisiana
OL-Howard Duncan. Kansas
OL-Scott Kempenich. Oklahoma

So, on offense, only two starters were from Texas.

Defense

DE-Cory Heinecke. Oklahoma
DE-Eric Thunander. Missouri
DT-Ryan Fisher. Texas
DT-Barry Holleyman. Oklahoma/Kory Klein. Oklahoma
LB-Rocky Calmus. Oklahoma
LB-Torrance Marshall. Florida
LB-Roger Steffen. Oklahoma
DB-Roy Williams. California
DB-JT Thatcher. Oklahoma
DB-Derrick Strait. Texas
DB-Michal Thompson. Oklahoma

So two defensive starters were from Texas.

Yep. OU was sure hopeless without a vast majority of players from Texas.

Disclaimer: These starters are listed as best I remember them. I could be off on the starters at a couple of positions, and Brandon Everage (TX) started a couple of games instead of JT Thatcher I think.

[goingoneight]

I am the original poster, and in my second post I provided data to back up my hypothesis. I'm still waiting for you to learn how to read.

He's a longwhorn... he'll have to get out of jail first.

[GreaterState]

For some reason, only Texans seem to obsess on this issue. And I have never understood why.

Said in a thread started by Sooner fans, on soonerfans, where at least a few of you are suggesting that Texas HS football is not as good as Oklahoma football. But yeah, otherwise I guess it's no big deal to you.

I don't happen to care one way or the other about where players come from before they go to college. Maybe you've heard from hordes of Texans "claiming credit" for Oklahoma success -- I doubt it, and I haven't. Someone said Mack does that? Show me where?

But I do respond on an otherwise knowledgeable football board when people want to deny reality, suggest that Oklahoma HS are a national recruiting hotbed to rival Texas/Florida/Cali, or like the thread elsewhere here that suggested the only elite program builders in the conference were Stoops and Leach. Just silly. Good posts here have suggested reasons why Texas HS is the way it is -- better at least than pretending it's just not the case.

[crawfish]

I say, if texas colleges don't know what to do with their HS talent, then they don't deserve 'em.

Tell me this, whorns...how many NC's have you won with coaches who didn't have Oklahoma connections? Hint: you won't have to take your mittens off. :D

Texas talent + Oklahoma leadership = championships.

[sanantoniosooner]

I say, if texas colleges don't know what to do with their HS talent, then they don't deserve 'em.

Tell me this, whorns...how many NC's have you won with coaches who didn't have Oklahoma connections? Hint: you won't have to take your mittens off. :D

Texas talent + Oklahoma leadership = championships.
Thanks Mike Rich.

[tulsaoilerfan]

Said in a thread started by Sooner fans, on soonerfans, where at least a few of you are suggesting that Texas HS football is not as good as Oklahoma football. But yeah, otherwise I guess it's no big deal to you.

I don't happen to care one way or the other about where players come from before they go to college. Maybe you've heard from hordes of Texans "claiming credit" for Oklahoma success -- I doubt it, and I haven't. Someone said Mack does that? Show me where?

But I do respond on an otherwise knowledgeable football board when people want to deny reality, suggest that Oklahoma HS are a national recruiting hotbed to rival Texas/Florida/Cali, or like the thread elsewhere here that suggested the only elite program builders in the conference were Stoops and Leach. Just silly. Good posts here have suggested reasons why Texas HS is the way it is -- better at least than pretending it's just not the case.
I've seen no post where anyone on here says that Texas High School Football is not as good as Oklahoma's; the point you seem to be missing is that Texas is about 7x the population of Oklahoma so they naturally will be churning out more high school football talent than Oklahoma, by numbers, every year. The other thing you don't seem to get is that there have been quite a few in state kids that have contributed greatly to the Oklahoma program over the last 50 years and will continue to do so over the next 50 years.

[tulsaoilerfan]

Said in a thread started by Sooner fans, on soonerfans, where at least a few of you are suggesting that Texas HS football is not as good as Oklahoma football. But yeah, otherwise I guess it's no big deal to you.

I don't happen to care one way or the other about where players come from before they go to college. Maybe you've heard from hordes of Texans "claiming credit" for Oklahoma success -- I doubt it, and I haven't. Someone said Mack does that? Show me where?

But I do respond on an otherwise knowledgeable football board when people want to deny reality, suggest that Oklahoma HS are a national recruiting hotbed to rival Texas/Florida/Cali, or like the thread elsewhere here that suggested the only elite program builders in the conference were Stoops and Leach. Just silly. Good posts here have suggested reasons why Texas HS is the way it is -- better at least than pretending it's just not the case.
Are you kidding me? Every time we whip their asses all we hear is that we are doing it with Texas kids; this crap has been said for 50 years!!

[sooner518]

Oh, and just for the record, here's the starting 22 for the 2000 national championship team.

QB-Josh Heupel. South Dakota
RB-Quentin Griffin. Texas
WR-Antwone Savage, Georgia
WR-Andre Woolfolk. Colorado
TE-Trent Smith. Oklahoma
FB-Seth Littrell. Oklahoma
OL-Al Baysinger. Texas
OL-Bubba Burcham. Oklahoma
OL-Brad Davis. Louisiana
OL-Howard Duncan. Kansas
OL-Scott Kempenich. Oklahoma

So, on offense, only two starters were from Texas.

Defense

DE-Cory Heinecke. Oklahoma
DE-Eric Thunander. Missouri
DT-Ryan Fisher. Texas
DT-Barry Holleyman. Oklahoma/Kory Klein. Oklahoma
LB-Rocky Calmus. Oklahoma
LB-Torrance Marshall. Florida
LB-Roger Steffen. Oklahoma
DB-Roy Williams. California
DB-JT Thatcher. Oklahoma
DB-Derrick Strait. Texas
DB-Michal Thompson. Oklahoma

So two defensive starters were from Texas.

Yep. OU was sure hopeless without a vast majority of players from Texas.

Disclaimer: These starters are listed as best I remember them. I could be off on the starters at a couple of positions, and Brandon Everage (TX) started a couple of games instead of JT Thatcher I think.

This thread just turned into a huge bag of PWnage

[GreaterState]

the point you seem to be missing is that Texas is about 7x the population of Oklahoma so they naturally will be churning out more high school football talent than Oklahoma, by numbers, every year. The other thing you don't seem to get is that there have been quite a few in state kids that have contributed greatly to the Oklahoma program over the last 50 years and will continue to do so over the next 50 years.

No, I get those points. I'm not the original poster.

Factors like numbers, weather and cultural importance of high-school football are all part of it.

[XFollower]

As long as we kick the crap out of all TX teams this year, this argument will be irrelevant. Football starts at the college level, and when they come to play at OU they become Sooners. That excludes Brett Romar, we gave him back.

[Stoop Dawg]

No, I get those points. I'm not the original poster.

Factors like numbers, weather and cultural importance of high-school football are all part of it.

Weather? Are you under the impression that the weather in DFW is significantly different than it is in OKC? Perhaps you should visit OKC sometime.

[CORNholio]

Weather? Are you under the impression that the weather in DFW is significantly different than it is in OKC? Perhaps you should visit OKC sometime.

Bout 5 degrees warmer on avg.
Kids dont like to play when its 42 degrees outside, but 47 degrees kicks arse.
Oh and GreaterTaint why no response to the truth about the 2000 team. Can't handle the truth?

[olevetonahill]

No, I get those points. I'm not the original poster.

Factors like numbers, weather and cultural importance of high-school football are all part of it.
Were you not warned to change your Avie ?:D

[CORNholio]

Check the rosters of the best Sooner teams and 75% of the starters come from out of state,primarily Texas. Look at your starting lineup this year.Has OU ever had a winning season where there were more Oklahoma kids in lineup than Texans? No Texans means losing seasons ala Kansas or 1-AA.

Good point. Oh, no, wait I think this point got shot to hell.
Nice try though. Nobody spouts out random fairytale facts like a slanderous sec ******.

[Salt City Sooner]

DE-Eric Thunander. Missouri
Corey Callens. Chalk up another Oklahoman.

[GreaterState]

Weather? Are you under the impression that the weather in DFW is significantly different than it is in OKC? Perhaps you should visit OKC sometime.

In a good giant piece of Texas, it never, ever snows. I haven't spent a lot of fall months in Oklahoma but I figured there is some stormier weather in a lot of places there.

I'm from up north and we played in blizzards; not that you can't produce good football players up there, but it's very hard to showcase elite talent and flashy runbacks and such in those conditions. It's not like there's no reason at all that recruiting discussions come to center on Southern California, Texas and Florida. Temperate weather means a more injury-free environment for skill players, and a ton of families settling, which mean more high schoolers overall.

[GreaterState]

Oh and GreaterTaint why no response to the truth about the 2000 team. Can't handle the truth?

Well, I never said you can't get great football players out of Oklahoma. I only joined in here because I read a crazy-*** notion that Texas HS football isn't some of/the best in the nation. If in some (horrible) alternate universe, Texas was based in Norman and OU in Austin, then "Texas" would still recruit heavily from Texas. Let's not let pride get in the way of facts.

As long as I'm the lightning rod for this, though, here's a hypothetical question: Do you think that 2000 team is still champions with an Oklahoma QB, Oklahoma RB, and an Oklahoma DB in place of Roy Williams?

I think not. A very good team, yes. But champions without Heupel, Griffin and Williams? That's three huge difference-makers.

[snp]

As long as I'm the lightning rod for this, though, here's a hypothetical question: Do you think that 2000 team is still champions with an Oklahoma QB, Oklahoma RB, and an Oklahoma DB in place of Roy Williams?

I think not. A very good team, yes. But champions without Heupel, Griffin and Williams? That's three huge difference-makers.

Get the hell over yourself. There's no rule in NCAA where you are not allowed to take players from certain states so why do you UT fans insist on bringing it up? This is a retarded argument and this is coming from a fellow Texan.

[47straight]

As long as I'm the lightning rod for this, though, here's a hypothetical question: Do you think that 2000 team is still champions with an Oklahoma QB, Oklahoma RB, and an Oklahoma DB in place of Roy Williams?


How many games would a Div1 team win with players entirely from whatever piece of **** canadian province you're actually from (and not picking another place to bandwagon to talk **** to okies?).

[tulsaoilerfan]

I read your posts. You didn't prove much of your point (was it "My brain hurts hearing about how great Texas HS football is"?) before challenging others to prove you wrong. You're the one who started the thread.

GHP made the good numbers points. If you're seriously asking why (if Texas HSers are so great) don't Texas schools own college football, it's because they can't have 400 players on roster. And recruiting is an inexact enough science that nobody is guaranteed to have the very "best" players, if such a thing could be measured objectively. If your recruiting base is Texas, you scholly up the best set you can, knowing that dozens of top recruits are going elsewhere.

If Texas HS football wasn't the way it was, if it were more like other states, then top-flight recruits would be thinking "Should I go to UT, A&M or Tech?" Instead they have an entire country waiting with scholarships and open arms. Same for top Florida and California kids. And it's a rare coup to get much good from those places from outside, like Nebbish getting that d-back from L.A., or Texas getting Brantley from Florida (before losing him to Gators again).

Aside from numbers and good weather, it's an evolving situation. Oklahoma teams from 30 years ago had fewer Texans, but now has roughly 45 or so, to 25 Oklahomans? And then there's a cultural difference to Texas HS football I think you are overlooking.

I appreciate your state pride, but even a cursory look at something like the Rivals 100 would show 13 Texans and one Oklahoman (I think), so to say Texas HS football isn't a phenomenon is to bury your head in the sand.
I still don't see where anyone hasn't given Texas HS football it's due; however, most of those people act like all the Sooners do is stock the roster entirely with Texans every year, and that is not true and never has been true; IF oklahoma had 23 million people, i doubt seriously if we would even have to go to Texas to recruit. :pop:

[CORNholio]

As long as I'm the lightning rod for this, though, here's a hypothetical question: Do you think that 2000 team is still champions with an Oklahoma QB, Oklahoma RB, and an Oklahoma DB in place of Roy Williams?

I think not. A very good team, yes. But champions without Heupel, Griffin and Williams? That's three huge difference-makers.

This thread sucks. A bunch of whorn-loving rejects make false claims and exaggerate (or completely make-up) BS "facts" attempting to stir **** up. :texan: Then when their "facts" are shown to be a str8 fraud then they still can't get it through their thick heads. All that "rainforest heat and humidity" from the equator that apparantly runs through Austin must be causing them confusion.:rolleyes:

[bluedogok]

In a good giant piece of Texas, it never, ever snows. I haven't spent a lot of fall months in Oklahoma but I figured there is some stormier weather in a lot of places there.
Wanna bet? I can post up pictures of snow in South Texas locales like Corpus Christi, Galveston and Victoria and even down into the Valley from two years ago. Yes it is rare, but it can happen. I even had a trip to Miami and The Bahamas when it snowed there. There isn't that much difference from Austin to OKC in the winter, a few degrees cooler and a little more chance of snow but some years we had none. Down here we have had a few snowfalls but mostly just get ice whenever the winter weather hits.

Port Lavaca - Christmas 2004
http://bluedogok.com/PortLavaca04.jpg

[GottaHavePride]

I still don't see where anyone hasn't given Texas HS football it's due; however, most of those people act like all the Sooners do is stock the roster entirely with Texans every year, and that is not true and never has been true; IF oklahoma had 23 million people, i doubt seriously if we would even have to go to Texas to recruit. :pop:

I gave Texas HS football its due. Texas high school football is no better or worse than in any other state with a population of 23.5 million people. They produce more talent because they have roughly 7 times more kids playing high school football than Oklahoma.

In fact, it could be argued Florida high school football is better than Texas high school football. Florida seems to put out as much talent as Texas, but has a population 5 million less than Texas. To top it off, only 22% of Florida's population is under 18 years old, as opposed to Texas's 27%.

[Purple Tiger]

That's probably true, but Texas kids have historically wanted to go to OU because they were one of, if not the, first schools in this part of the country to recruit African Americans; I'm not even sure when UT had their first African American, but i'm thinking it was at least more than a decade after OU integrated their program.
Agreed,great post!

[Purple Tiger]

Take away Oklahomans and people who have coached at Oklahoma and Texas has 0 national championships.

Dig THOSE facts.
No way as OU rarely has more than 5 or 6 Oklahoma kids sarting. Check your current starters.
Remember the '71 team. Jack Mildren-Abilene Cooper,Greg Pruitt-Houston Jones,Joe Wylie-Henderson,Tx.,Tom Brahaney-Midland-Lee. And the list goes on.
Check '75 lineup. Check your '2000 team. '03 and '04 shows few Oklahoma starters. Plug in Oklahoma kids for any of the Texans on those teams and you would not have had a winning season. Take the Texans off this years team and replace them with Oklahoma guys and you don't win this yr.

[sanantoniosooner]

No way as OU rarely has more than 5 or 6 Oklahoma kids sarting. Check your current starters.
Remember the '71 team. Jack Mildren-Abilene Cooper,Greg Pruitt-Houston Jones,Joe Wylie-Henderson,Tx.,Tom Brahaney-Midland-Lee. And the list goes on.
Check '75 lineup. Check your '2000 team. '03 and '04 shows few Oklahoma starters. Plug in Oklahoma kids for any of the Texans on those teams and you would not have had a winning season. Take the Texans off this years team and replace them with Oklahoma guys and you don't win this yr.
You do realize that you totally ignored the post you quoted in your apparent response to said post, don't you?

His post was about the Oklahoma connection UT has in it's most successful coaching staffs.

Do we need to provide flow charts?

[Frozen Sooner]

No way as OU rarely has more than 5 or 6 Oklahoma kids sarting. Check your current starters.
Remember the '71 team. Jack Mildren-Abilene Cooper,Greg Pruitt-Houston Jones,Joe Wylie-Henderson,Tx.,Tom Brahaney-Midland-Lee. And the list goes on.
Check '75 lineup. Check your '2000 team. '03 and '04 shows few Oklahoma starters. Plug in Oklahoma kids for any of the Texans on those teams and you would not have had a winning season. Take the Texans off this years team and replace them with Oklahoma guys and you don't win this yr.

Why is there a cork on your fork?

Your post has nothing to do with the quoted post. Beyond that, there were only FOUR Texas starters on the 2000 team, compared to more then TEN Oklahomans-a fact which I amply showed in the post right AFTER the one you quoted.

JT Thatcher.
Rocky Calmus.
Cory Callens.
Kory Klein.
Michael Thompson.
Roger Steffen.
Cory Heinecke.

Have you noticed that on defense alone there's more than your 5-6 Oklahoma starters yet?

Trent Smith.
Seth Littrell.
Bubba Burcham.
Scott Kempenich.

So that's 11 starters from Oklahoma. Realizing that you may not actually know how to count, that's more than 5-6 "max."

You've certainly brought up some great players from OU's past. Let me bring up a few more names:

Jason White. Heisman winner. Oklahoma.
Steve Owens. Heisman winner. Oklahoma.
Billy Vessells. Hesman winner. Oklahoma.
Teddy Lehman. Butkus winner. Oklahoma.
Rocky Calmus. Butkus winner. Oklahoma.
JT Thatcher. Mosi Tatupu winner. Oklahoma.

Do I need to go on?

On OU's current team, here's some starters you may have heard of:

Sam Bradford, currently ranked #2 in passing efficiency. Oklahoman.
Reggie Smith, preseason Big 12 defensive player of the year. Oklahoman.
Curtus Lofton, leads the team in tackles. Oklahoman.

Mind you, these aren't all the starters-just the ones off the top of my head that are having REALLY outstanding seasons so far.

NOBODY is claiming that OU would be a better team if we stopped recruiting Texas. That'd be stupid as all hell-just as it would be for ANY team to refuse to recruit any state. That's just cutting your own throat. OU wouldn't have won as many games in the past if they hadn't recruited Texas (or South Dakota, or New Jersey, or New Mexico, or California.) Texas wouldn't have won as many games as THEY have in the past without recruiting California, Florida, New Jersey, etc.

And yes, Texas produces more high school talent than Oklahoma does. Florida (and Louisiana) high school football tends to produce more talent per capita as near as I can tell than Texas, but there's no doubt that Texas certainly produces their share-but it's not like Oklahoma is some barren wasteland of high school football. Hell, Texas has their stadium named after some guy who played his high school ball in Oklahoma.

[Stoop Dawg]

In a good giant piece of Texas, it never, ever snows. I haven't spent a lot of fall months in Oklahoma but I figured there is some stormier weather in a lot of places there.

I'm from up north and we played in blizzards; not that you can't produce good football players up there, but it's very hard to showcase elite talent and flashy runbacks and such in those conditions. It's not like there's no reason at all that recruiting discussions come to center on Southern California, Texas and Florida. Temperate weather means a more injury-free environment for skill players, and a ton of families settling, which mean more high schoolers overall.

Nice try, but the best Texas highschool football has to offer is in the DFW area. It might never snow in the border towns, but that's not where the highschool football talent lives.

The reason that most recruits come from California, Texas, and Florida has been explained to you about 1,000 times in this thread alone. If it were actually weather related (as you suggest) then AZ, NM, etc. would be hot beds too. The fact of the matter, though, is that it's population related. More people = more elite players. Why do you think the great Texas HS football teams are located next to huge population centers?

For some reason, at some point in their history, Texans forgot that the reason their state is so "great" is because it's also so large. I'm not knocking Texas, because I actually kinda like it here. But Texans seriously need to get over this over-inflated state pride thing. A little state pride is fine, but you guys take it to an unhealthy extreme.

[Statalyzer]

They may be born Texans, but they come to Oklahoma to become champions

Adrian Peterson, is that you?

[sanantoniosooner]

Adrian Peterson, is that you?
nope.........it's Chris Simms, the fake Roy Williams, and Derrick Johnson

[snp]

Nice try, but the best Texas highschool football has to offer is in the DFW area. It might never snow in the border towns, but that's not where the highschool football talent lives.


Houston produces the most NFL players of any city, according to several NFL coaches. I'm pretty sure Switzer once said he could win a NC with a team made up of all Houston players.

[TexasLidig8r]

Do I need to go back and re-read this entire thread for insightful and intelligent discussion? Or is the usual, "Okie can't win without Texas talent, and Texas can't win without coaches with ties to OU" pablum that tends to be spewed forth on a frequent basis?

[Stoop Dawg]

Houston produces the most NFL players of any city, according to several NFL coaches. I'm pretty sure Switzer once said he could win a NC with a team made up of all Houston players.

Don't spoil my Southlake Carroll props.

[footballfanatic]

Right now, there are many Texas Qb's starting or started this year for Div 1 schools out of state:

U Georgia
U Kansas
U Michigan
U Miami
Michigan St. (Foles will start as a junior)
U Missouri
OSU

[footballfanatic]

I gave Texas HS football its due. Texas high school football is no better or worse than in any other state with a population of 23.5 million people. They produce more talent because they have roughly 7 times more kids playing high school football than Oklahoma.

In fact, it could be argued Florida high school football is better than Texas high school football. Florida seems to put out as much talent as Texas, but has a population 5 million less than Texas. To top it off, only 22% of Florida's population is under 18 years old, as opposed to Texas's 27%.

I heard an interesting commentary comparing Texas and Florida HS football. Texas has better-funded schools, and better coached talent. Florida has lower-funded schools and higher talent, as in pure speed. Many more Texans play for D1 schools in Florida than Floridians play in Texas (they flashed the numbers during the Miami ATM game and it wasn't even close), but Florida talent is top-notch.

[tulsaoilerfan]

No way as OU rarely has more than 5 or 6 Oklahoma kids sarting. Check your current starters.
Remember the '71 team. Jack Mildren-Abilene Cooper,Greg Pruitt-Houston Jones,Joe Wylie-Henderson,Tx.,Tom Brahaney-Midland-Lee. And the list goes on.
Check '75 lineup. Check your '2000 team. '03 and '04 shows few Oklahoma starters. Plug in Oklahoma kids for any of the Texans on those teams and you would not have had a winning season. Take the Texans off this years team and replace them with Oklahoma guys and you don't win this yr.

A true Sooner fan doesn't give a **** where they come from; when they get here they are all Sooners and that's all the matters.

[FtwTxSooner]

Some "OU can't win without Texas talent" smack going on here....

http://colleges.beloblog.com/archives/2007/09/texasoklahoma_will_be_230_pm_kick_on_oct.html#comm ents

[goodonya]

The Poles swear they make the best vodka in the world. The Russians (all of them) swear that they do. The Finns make some very fine vodka, probably the best in the world, they just don't claim it.

The point is that Texans don't consider that there is civilization, or opinions or talent, outside Texas. Therefore, you must give them a wide berth, pity and references to psychiatric help as there is nothing tangible that can be done to alleviate their condition.

[Leroy Lizard]

Why are they so proud that their kids don't want to stay and play football in their own state? I thought there was supposed to be "state pride" in Texas. Or is it all just talk?

[hOlden caUlfield...]

Texas has a population of 23,507,783 (based on a 2006 U.S. census bureau estimate). the state is second-largest in both area (behind Alaska) and population (behind California). Oklahoma has 3,579,212 residents in 2006. The have so many people and so many schools! Oklahoma borders texas. We aren't a huge state. Why wouldn't we recruit from a state with 23 million people. That is ridiculous. States are lines on a map. That is all. This is america. They are pretty stupid to think we shouldn't recruit from their state.

[hOlden caUlfield...]

"My brain hurts hearing about how great Texas HS football is"

haha. it is amazing what texans argue now that they know their favorite college team sucks. they just want to argue.

[Frozen Sooner]

Right now, there are many Texas Qb's starting or started this year for Div 1 schools out of state:

U Georgia
U Kansas
U Michigan
U Miami
Michigan St. (Foles will start as a junior)
U Missouri
OSU

Chad Henne is from Texas? 'Cause he's the starter at Michigan. He's hurt.

That being said, I'd probably keep Mallett playing.

[Crucifax Autumn]

Having lived in Texas, I agree that they have great HS football and great tradition, but hell, what else is there to do in Texas? Can't be for the college teams!

[snp]

Don't spoil my Southlake Carroll props.

I thought they were an NFL team the way my SL friends talk about them.